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More, less, or the same complexity?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Terra1, Jun 13, 2018.


Ideal complexity level:

  1. High

  2. Medium (current)

  3. Low

    0 vote(s)
  4. 5 year old

  1. Terra1

    Terra1 Forum R. Admiral

    So, here's an explanation for what the complexity levels are:
    High is lots of control panels, realistic cannon shells and damage, customizable engines, etc.
    Medium is what we have now
    Low would get rid of stuff like cannon loading, get rid of engines and make speed fixed, etc
    5 year old is the same as low but even more extreme.
  2. TheInventorMan

    TheInventorMan Admin Staff Member Admin

    I've long been a stark defender of having as little complexity as-possible in NavyCraft, and here's why:

    Please realize that complexity is not depth.

    Complexity in game design is how many variables there are, how much you need to learn, and how hard each variable is to grasp. Depth, however, is how much you can do with the variables given to you by complexity, and how far you can master them.

    The majority of good game design strives for depth as a goal, not complexity. Complexity is simply one of the tools in achieving depth, rather than being depth itself. Now there's obviously exceptions to this--games like FTD and KSP are some of my personal favorite games of all time, but I feel like NavyCraft fits better into the former category, rather than the latter (we're not trying to be Dwarf Fortress here, are we?).
    Execution comes into play here, too. It's obviously key to having both good complexity and depth (and really, just about everything else, too), but it's also key in allowing the player to actually understand and use those aspects of gameplay. More complexity as a whole isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you can bridge the player to it well enough.

    A good example of depth with minimal complexity, is something like rocket jumping in TF2: once you've got many of the basics of combat down, you can slowly move on to using those exact same aiming and movement controls, plus your newfound skills in those areas, to add a whole new level of mobility and gameplay to your character (Screamin' eagles!), all the way up to a ridiculously high skill-cap.

    Aspects of gameplay should be easy to grasp, yet hard to master.

    I mean, for that matter, new players already have enough trouble creating working engines or torpedo setups, and while that's partially a fault of the server and its execution (need moar tutorialz), the plugin itself doesn't make it any easier, either.

    But at any rate, I don't want to bore you with a whole spiel about my opinions on game design, my tl;dr is "As little complexity as possible, for as much depth as possible."

    The_11thDoctor likes this.
  3. Terra1

    Terra1 Forum R. Admiral

    I like a challenge. NavyCraft is not one.
    Personally, i'd like a Minecraft version of Submarine Commander
  4. Adventure117217

    Adventure117217 Forum Master

    Go find another server that's like that. Or go get the game itself.
  5. TheInventorMan

    TheInventorMan Admin Staff Member Admin

    That's fine. Again, I enjoy games like that every once in awhile, too; however, games like that are decidedly very niche, and I still think that making NavyCraft much harder to get into than it already is would be counter-productive.
    The game should be easy to play, but hard to play well.
  6. arkery

    arkery Forum Lt. JG

    You're digging that much into TF2 now aren't you?

    Now in regards to this post. Essentially what iiz said although emphasis on the lack of a competent tutorial system and certain tasks executed by staff.

    Frankly part of the reason by NBZ slowly died was the lack of plugin updates and... ineffectual resolutions to new problems that would continue arise leading to an entirely complex list of rules and etiquette that everyone had to follow.

    Part of this has been solved by several patches from iiz and others but you all still have problems related to some things being too complex.

    The ideal person... or kid as that is what the usual audience is for this server, should be able to have fun and enjoy being on the server for around one to two hours. Possibly the first hour being battling and the second hour getting money, so on and so forth. The problem is that faction raiding and such creates this overly complex position where you would have to sail for hours or so and prepare to launch things here and there.

    There also isn't any return investment in raiding or destroying enemy bases either outside of... emotional satisfaction; Which leads to the fact that money becomes entirely useless outside of launching ships just for dock battles. Furthermore bedrock bases are entirely popular due to their base being nearly unraidable creating this sort of stagnation creating even more complex ways and solutions to attempt to beat them.

    There's also the fact that there are players on the server who throw out suggestions left and right "claiming" that it's "what the community wants" when those changes would directly disrupt their, shall we say "superiority" which makes it increasingly difficult and complex for new players to join in.

    Point is, complexity is entirely counterproductive for this server at the current state.

    The rules page posted on forums could literally be cut in half just by changing a few things plugin wise and actually updated the rules once. (I literally see some of them that haven't been changed that doesn't apply anymore).

    -who the f*ck redesigned the new mvs in shipyard? You should be fired/ripped apart/ demoted since you have no darn sense on GUI or user interface design. Seriously? A giant castle that blocks me from directly flying to useful info while the damn engine signs are all inverted so that it's a corridor not just a simple wall.

    -Spawn is too big; you all spelled CHIEF wrong on the player rank signs at spawn.

    -Whoever makes the/a new map. Consider that noobs have to sail around landmasses. Don't be stupid and just say, "oh it takes so and so minutes to sail from A to B" since you calculated the length and width of the map only you lazy arse.

    -Whoever blew up my zen rock on the old mvs copy above the current one will die.

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  7. Sidewalk

    Sidewalk Quintessential Veteran

    who lives beside a pineapple under a rock in the seeaaaa

  8. Adventure117217

    Adventure117217 Forum Master

    11/5 Head Admin acting
    The_11thDoctor and Terra1 like this.
  9. Terra1

    Terra1 Forum R. Admiral

    Please stop drinking alcohol until the server is fixed, Sidewalk.
  10. Sidewalk

    Sidewalk Quintessential Veteran

  11. Adventure117217

    Adventure117217 Forum Master

    Just wait till he overdoses and we'll be fine.
  12. gatraf

    gatraf Forum Admiral

    There are more levels to Navalclash than just the gameplay itself, it goes beyond the mechanics of the game itself. It is what you want it to be, with very little restrictions.
  13. gatraf

    gatraf Forum Admiral

    Agreed. However my opinion is first getting a larger playerbase, factions are barely functional due to the immense lack of fu*king players, and of course we NEED MORE STAFF. I cant go 5min on the server without seeing anyone ask: ”is there an admin or someone with world edit online?” But of course we only have three fuc.king active staff members. And no trainers. We have NOOOO trainers. Like seriously wtf?
    Terra1 and Adventure117217 like this.
  14. unstopable777

    unstopable777 Forum Ensign

    I just can't make heads or tails of Terra's stupid posts. What context is this, are you referring to another post or is this just another sh.itpost to confuse people.

    Lets be real here, people, this is Minecraft. What Terra is envisioning for the server seems more like a SH5/Star Citizen combo, if you will. There are some things you just cant do with this platform- with this plugin. Yeah, I think it would be damn cool to have intricate functionality of different systems on your ship or what have you, but what we have is what we have, and for all the problems it has its a damn good plugin. I wouldn't even think about risking screwing it up even more trying to patch something into a code that already has 6000 band-aids on an open wound.
  15. Terra1

    Terra1 Forum R. Admiral

    The code functions, (Trust me, i've seen it) it's just an inefficient mess that's impossible to read.
  16. The_11thDoctor

    The_11thDoctor Forum Admiral

    Omfg Im really thinking to quit till you make progress
    Adventure117217 likes this.

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